a blab by idle

Good for you. Walking away is always best when you're not satisfied 100%. Thanks for getting the word out on your experience.

I find it really matters which Apple Store you use. If the store manager *gets* the Apple concept, then the stores work great. If not, then they suck.

Two examples . . . .

First, buying my parents a Mac when their 486 finally died. The first Apple Store we went to was awful, along the lines of what you describe. The second one, the guy was amazing. He could deal with our mixed party (at that time, I worked for a Mac software developer, so I know one or two things about the hardware; my mother is a fearless explorer of new computers; my dad was HUGELY reluctant, but my brother and I had told him that we could no longer try to support his PC over the phone since neither of us has one in the house). He was patient, friendly and efficient, and my parents are very happy with their computer.

Second, buying my new 15" Powerbook. I walked into one Apple Store and said to the guy "I want to buy a new Powerbook. I think I want the 15" unless the 12" will meet my needs. We are going to need to try it out. Is it possible to hook me up to the internet from here so I can try it?" He just looked at me with a glazed expression on his face. The next store, I said the same stuff to the guy, and he said, "Sure. What exactly does it need to do?" And I said, "Well, I need to run all the Adobe CS apps, the full developer toolkit, and there must be no lag in Ironforge." He just laughed and said, "If you have the World of Warcraft disks with you, we can check out that Ironforge thing now." Which we did, and the 12" couldn't cut it, so I got the 15".

As part of my old job, we used to do in-store events related to our software. Believe me, the entire effectiveness of an Apple Store depends 100% on the manager, on her outlook, on her commitment to Apple's standards.

Apple obviously has bad stores and bad hiring procedures. Well good to know because they need really good people to populate their stores and they're hiring idiots.......Well I will keep my shopping to online thanks for the warning. Until i am assured this is a good situation.

It strictly depends on which store you go to. Apple retail stores are no different than Best Buy, Circuit City or any other retailer. You're simply going to find some stores that do have decent employees and service, and some stores that don't. In this area we have two Apple Stores and while one has always had excellent service, the other has been hit and miss. It's simply the state of retail in the world today, it's not exclusive to Apple in any way.

While the guy was inept and WRONG about the price of the RAM.. the Mac Mini with a RAM upgrade is cheaper to do as a CTO (custom order!). There is no way around it, with only one RAM slot on the MIni and Retails inablility to buy back the RAM taken out....

Just to let everyone know, at the Apple Store Yorkdale I've had nothing but amazing customer service, everyone is very eager to help out. Just wanted to note that in the Yorkdale store, they will match the price on the web for ram upgrades and then keep the one that's in the box so you always get the same price as on the web. They don't have any internal order system that you mentioned, we just configured everything from the regular store website and got all of those prices in the store.

Your mac mini and 20" display will cost you just about as much as a 20" iMac G5. Why not go with the superior hardware inside the iMac?

The iPod has been a twin-edged sword for Apple and Mac users. The Halo effect is nice, but the devolution of the Apple Retail Store into the 'iPod Store' is complete and total BS. They are even calling them that in the national media. 1/3rd or more of the store should not be devoted to iPod trinkets. Let Target, Best Buy, etc sell that shit.
Half the time you cannot get Mac software and accessories that used to be regularly kept in stock. Not esoteric stuff, just stuff that didn't turn over as fast as iPod trinkets. I have seen potential switchers turned off and largely ignored by overly busy store staff pimping iPods to soccer moms, kids in tow. This will come around to eventually bite Apple in the a*s.

First off, do you know how annoying it is to have someone walk in to your store and treat you like McDonald's cashier? No one in retail likes the people who already know exactly what they want. We prefer it if you go online. These guys are trained to SELL you the product (or upsell to better product). They take pride in their knowledge of the products too. But you took that away from him immediately. It's a wonder he was even able to mention Applecare (well worth it IMHO). As for the ram, that's pretty much normal for all retailers. The store gets shipped a standard configuration. They have to open it up and install the extra ram. What should they do with the extra chip? I'm sure there are possibilities, but so few people do custom configs that it probably isn't worth the expense. And anyway, everyone knows Apple charges too much for ram anyway. If you're going to buy from the store, remember what a huge advantage it is to discuss the product with an expert (in most cases) and walk out with it (when it is in stock). If that doesn't matter, and you don't want help picking out a system, then stay home. BTW, I do not work for an Apple store but I do work for a large retailer.

It is "annoying" to a salesperson to actually do their job and fill an order when a customer knows what they want? Seriously?

Perhaps these people who get annoyed at performing one of the requirements of their job should investigate other employment options.

You should have asked to speak to a manager, they're trained to deal with jerks who want to upgrade Mac mini RAM and can't handle the store's policies. A manager could easily have given a price override. As for putting a gig into a Mac mini, what the hell kind of apps were you planning on running with that slow piece of shit? And it's true, why complain about the cinema display not being black if it costs more than the Mini? Don't tell me you're actually into the Mac mini after you've read the specs on the iMac! Yeah, keep shopping online and stay out of Apple Stores—they're only trained to help you make the proper decision (which, in my opinion you weren't about to make), maybe online you can get the asshole discount. And by the way, Best Buy dickheads are paid commission, Apple Retail employees are paid hourly to give you information.

This is where an Apple reseller, NOT APPLE, would really shine. They would have monitor alternatives, offer to buy back the 512 stick, and give you a respectable price on the 1GB upgrade.

Hey, I just want to take a minute to apologize to the scarf-wearing register dude at the Apple Store in question.

I was irked when I wrote this post, and he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when it came to helping us. I know he meant well. So… I'm sorry that I flew off the handle. Especially if you (or one of your managers) is reading this. It was a cheap shot and you didn't deserve that.

Thanks to everyone who has offered some great questions or ideas or shared their own stories on this thread so far!

It also depends on what store you go to as to if they will credit you for the RAM inside the machine. I would regularly get approval to credit the difference in RAM on a Machine in cases like this (or when the 12" PB came with 256 built in and 256 in the one slot, bloody stupid for us retail folks) As for ordering a CTO machine, at least give your local store some help; When you go to order it go to your local stores custom online kiosk. the addresses are: http://store.apple.com/STORENAMEHERE ie: http://homepage.mac.com/fashionisland That way the store gets credit for the sale and helps towards their goals!!

Scott-
I don't think you understand why they couldn't give you a credit on the ram. Think of it from the stores stand point, they cannot resell ram as new that they take out of a machine like the online store couild. They would be at a substantial lost to give you that ram for the same price. Give them a break, theres a lot of assholes they have to deal with in a day :)

I agree with most that it depends on the apple store that you go to. Most of the ones that I've been to have excellent customer service, but one that I've gone to has a manager (I think he's the manager or at least one of the managers) who seems to give you a hard time about any question you'd ask. Sorry for the harsh words, but I think he's a jerk and it's too bad it's the closest apple store to me. He even scolded me for posting on the dealmac message board while in the store saying that it's against company policy (though I confirmed in other stores, that there's nothing wrong with what I did).

Dude, you walked into their store, they have a right to have their rules. Their rules ultimately save lots of consumers lots of money, why not try playing by their rules and see what happens. When I do that, it is usually to my favor.... you sound like a nice person and an educator... how do you feel when people come into your classroom and demand that you do everything just the way you want it? I'll bet you have rules for your classroom and your school that you don't just allow, say, taxpayers to just come in and demand whatever they want whenever they want it. Rules generally are provided to keep order and to provide overall efficiency or to suit the needs of the owner. When I visit friend's homes I don't expect to get whatever I want, I expect to have a nice experience sharing and working together.

I've been to the Yorkdale store about 5 times and I think their customer service is superb. One time, I was discussing a problem about one of my school eMacs with the Store Manager, and he gave me all of the support options. But, the last time I was there, I wanted to see the new iMac G5, and the new iPod. After waiting for about 10 minutes, I finally got on it. All I did was close PhotoBooth, because I wanted to turn it and see how thin it is, then an employee pushes me off to let some other customer try PhotoBooth! I wasn't even on for 10 secs! I thought that was very inconsiderate. They should let their customers take their time to look at their products, not rush them along after just a short look. The people before me must have spent about 20 min just taking pictures. At least there was another iMac on the other side of the store, with an Apple Remote. That was probably my worst experience in an Apple Store, but it won't stop me from going again.

Have you considered the Dell UltraSharp 2005FPW instead of the Apple 20" Cinema Display? Although it uses the same Philips LG LCD panel, it's cheaper and offers more features (Use as a TV, picture in picture, etc.) Oh, and its black.